Richard Stubbs on how to conduct a world class interview for your content marketing | #392

Richard Stubbs:

It’s not a bad idea. It’s just wrong time. I I drop something. I might say something that pushes a boundary. I might do that kind of thing but it’s off air early after I’ve met the person. Before the interview starts because I want to see which way they’re going to jump. So if I do something that’s a little out of left field I want to see which way they’re going to jump and that will inform how I’m going to run my questions during the interview. The way you do it I’ve kind of committed because if they freeze and it goes really badly well we’ve started the interview shit. So, it’s better to do what you’re doing the ideas right but to do it off air and to do it early and to monitor the person like everything we should probably talk about the notion of what you’re doing in an interview and all that kind of stuff because I feel like the first question is already about 10 things into the interview.

Tim Reid:

I get that but I put that question there because it’s like well normally I’d start with an icebreaker. I’m not going to start I want establish whether it’s good or not. So what you’re saying is by all means break the ice by asking a fun question of your guest but do it off air and get a read on where they go with it.

Richard Stubbs:

Correct.

Tim Reid:

They have fun. Do they freeze. So, therefore I will come back to pre interview. Therefore, what is the nature of your first question?

Richard Stubbs:

It could be anything depending on who you’re interviewing. If I’m doing interviews it might be someone who’s on their fortieth interview for the day so maybe they’re promoting a film or something and they’ve come out and they’re just a blank. So what is the unique content you’re going to get out of that person. What is the thing that’s going to make your interview more listenable than the other 39 that he’s done. So one of the ways to achieve that is to cut through to the person to wake them up. So, I push them and not physically but I mean I say something odd I catch their attention. I bought and see which way they go on it. The critical thing to be looking at with any interview is body language. 80 percent of our communications is non-verbal. So, how did the person walk in.  Where was their eyeline. What was their handshake like. Was there a handshake. What were they carrying. How did they hold themselves. Where did they stand. How did they see it. All of those things that tell you about what the person’s feeling, what mood they’re in, how you’re going to strike a rapport and get this thing running.

Tim Reid:

Wow. What to look for.

Richard Stubbs:

Well yeah because look the person you’re interviewing. Think of yourself as a safecracker and the person you’re interviewing is a safe and you’ve got a couple of minutes before the alarm goes off. So you need to get a combination and you do that the interview starts from the moment you see them before they’ve seen you even if it’s glusman or and or consider. So the interview started and you’re watching them and you’re measuring them and you’re going okay. So what’s going on with this person. Where’s their head at. What are they thinking. All of that.

Tim Reid:

You’re dealing historically with a lot of people who are interview friendly. At least they’ve done hundreds, right?

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah.

Tim Reid:

Often in my case and in the case of people listening they’re interviewing people who just haven’t been interviewed.

Richard Stubbs:

So I’ve done that too. And they’re even bigger. I interviewed a lot of veterans. And so these are people who I’m getting to tell a story that they probably haven’t even told their family and they’re not professionals and I always used to say I never get nervous interviewing big stars. I could care less about them. And they’re professionals at what they do. They don’t give a crap about me. I honestly don’t care about them either. I just don’t. I find some of them are really nice people and some of them aren’t. The interviews where you’re interviewing a civilian particularly about a trauma these are really important challenging interviews. And so you are even more working I am anyway to be aware of the nuances of the body language and to pick up and to repeat language. And one of the ways one of the ways that you get a good interview out of someone who is not used to it is to know everything about what they’re talking about. So you need to do your research you need to have done. I had this recurring nightmare that I’m doing an interview where I don’t know anything. And we used to do it occasionally because I did so many interviews in 11 years with the ABC. Apart from all the other things I’ve done in interviews. We used to do things occasionally that we’d have a guest come on and I just had to work out who they are through conversation. Well we’ll talk about that a little later maybe because that’s kind of a different headspace about it. But in general you need to know everything about the person who is going to lead them. When they’re not professional at their story you need to give them little hooks to go. Your business started 10 years ago. 10 years ago the market was very different. Well it was. Here’s the other thing you’ve got to do when you’re interviewing someone who’s not a professional you’ve got to listen.

Tim Reid:

Can I just put listening on hold because I hear it all the time.

Richard Stubbs:

Sure.

Tim Reid:

I think it’s important.

Richard Stubbs:

Maybe.

Tim Reid:

The people that I’m interviewing and again those who are listening are interviewing they’re not interview savvy. We don’t we the business owners don’t necessarily have the resource to go and find out everything about them.

Richard Stubbs:

Now there’s this thing called the Internet.

Tim Reid:

No no I get that. I totally get that. The resources there, the time is maybe not be there. So is your view what I do or say I’ve got an interview after you today. It’s a business owner. I have spoken to his coach because she was a guest on the show a few weeks ago. She’s given me some insight into him. I’ve had a pre interview with him. I feel like I know enough for it to be a very good interview. Now I’m thinking maybe I’m kidding myself maybe I should know intimately his timeline of business success so that if he doesn’t mention something I pull it out of him.

Richard Stubbs:

Maybe. So here’s the thing. I think you have to go back to radio principles here. What makes me listen to what you’re doing. What’s the interesting thing. You should be asking yourself about an interview and about any content. Is this the best that I can put on air? And if it isn’t get it off. And if it is, good doesn’t mean that there’s not better stuff coming. After the break Mel Gibson. But right now this is the best stuff we’ve got. So if it isn’t the very best stuff that you’re putting to air then don’t put it to air. So just to put that in the framework of what you’re talking about. Tough for me to answer the question because I don’t know what you think is interesting about this person. Why are you talking to someone. Why will either listen give a crap what makes me that’s why often when you’re on radio you should talk in terms of you. As in you’re talking to your audience going you know our next guest because you’ve seen his business and you’ve probably used it but you never understood what it takes to get a business like that spread from one shop to 10 shops to nationwide. And we’re going to unpick his brain today and you’re going to find out. So what you’re telling me is something that I’m interested in. So it’s less about the anecdotes and about the nuances. Japanese saying study technique practice techniques forget technique so you learn how to do a thing. You practice it so much that it becomes a conditioned reflex. And then when you’re doing it you don’t think about it. So in your research you’re looking for the bits that are interesting. You’re not necessarily going to sit an exam where I need you to list his entire timeline but I need you to know the interesting bits of the timeline. I need to be able to look down the timeline and go ha look at that his business posted a profit that year when the interest rates were at 20%. How the crap did he do that. These things the things that with practice you go what that’s going to be an interesting story. That’s why did he do it like that. Why is that there.

Tim Reid:

Just want to go back to the pre interview. Sort of time lining this I’m sort of questions left right and centre. When you kindly agreed to do this interview I said what can we do a preview said no because you’ve done lots of interviews. As I walked out of the pub that night I was like actually for me it wasn’t for Richard because I mean and I completely get it you don’t need to figure out what you don’t want to talk about how to nail a great interview. I wanted to do a pre interview because I wanted to structure and I wanted to get to want to go from the pre interview to interview to post to you or whatever and talk about that. Is that an important thing to do and I do a five minute interview with every guest hear their voice establish rapport. They get a sense of what I’m about.

Richard Stubbs:

In the world of radio, it’s what a producer would do. So a producer would contact the guest and say you’re right to come on and tell me a bit about. So I think therefore that it’s a great thing to be doing when you’re a one person operation. Just don’t overdo it. Don’t put all your best shots and the practice going. You need it to be short. I think the keyword there was five minutes and you need to be quite specific about what you need to get out of this you need to get that tell. Find out which way this person jumps. What is the sound of their voice. Are they really boring. Speaking of our monotone they got a high pitched nasal whine. What is going on. Just from the sound of it because it’s audio and also giving yourself just background to things. And some of the pre interview of you might just be what do you think’s important about your business?

Like big general questions and then pick up on the nature of their answers.

Tim Reid:

And that’s exactly what I do and I find myself the most common thing I say in a pre interview phone call is keep your powder dry because what they do is they go into the story and I like it.

Richard Stubbs:

Don’t tell me the story.

Tim Reid:

Don’t tell me the story. I want the element of surprise to remain. Is it okay. As we go in an interview to not maintain eye contact? Because particularly this interview I’ve got questions I really just want to make sure I cross off. Other interviews. I feel like I’m just gonna have a conversation and we’re just going to lock eyes and we’re just we’re in a pup.

Richard Stubbs:

Both doesn’t matter. It’s not a staring contest.

Tim Reid:

It feels weird that I’m looking down.

Richard Stubbs:

No. You’re working. It’s not a weird, Tim. What do you do with the money. I don’t know. I don’t know one of those.

Tim Reid:

Richard looked to his left.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah that’s right. I looked up and I don’t think it’s one of those. And sometimes I don’t make eye contact if I’m going to ask something that I think personal. So I just did it then because I got resting bitch face. And I don’t want to be staring at someone necessarily. Maybe I want to let them maybe my sense that the person is they’ll talk easier if it’s they’re not feeling under the glare of it. So use it like any other tool. It is important to make eye contact that’s kind of weird to talk to someone who sits and talks out a window.

Tim Reid:

Yeah. But I have also heard you say in another interview where you are. So all you’re doing is listening. We’re going to come to listening but all you’re doing is listening you’re looking down at your notes. You’re scribbling stuff down. Your guest is talking.

Richard Stubbs:

Tragically, that wasn’t the guest talking that was my partner. It too long on radio. No I don’t do it in an interview like that but when you’ve got talkback calls that coming through your headphones so you kind of just staring at nothing maybe making notes to yourself or lining up an x or whatever but you’re all about your ears and what’s going through. So I found myself one of my radio habits that was that my partner would be telling me something important. I’m just looking down at the table just really listening to the sound of a voice like it’s a talk back don’t you guys. Are you even listening. I’m going baby that’s all I’m doing. Could you look I sort of got out of the habit of that. But then I also helped my family through. So just before dinner I go you’ll never believe what happened at work today and how I found 50 bucks. All that and a whole lot more when I’m back from the toilet.

Tim Reid:

You take the boy at a radio but I know like radio out of the boy. You mentioned resting bitch face before. Now it’s one of your great routines because this is audio. Because this is going global. And there are people who go like who is Richard Stubbs. Do I need to pull you up and have you explain that or do we just let it go?

Richard Stubbs:

Always explain. Pull up is bad. If someone’s in a flow. So I think because it happens resty big faces is I think a common phrase. People work it out. But in terms of the question rather than pull them up you can just clarify. So you go resty, Tim that’s where your faces always looking like a cross, right. So like you’re agreeing with them. See how I’m paralleling. I’m not going. I’ll stop you there. Let me just explain resting bitch face to a run. OK. Now on you go. Like traffic cop the other way is to go. Oh yeah. Because that’s like so-and-so or. That’s right. The interest rates were low that year weren’t they. So you add that little bit of extra information you feel the audience needs without being a cop and stopping the traffic around.

Tim Reid:

Let the guest go through it immediately.

Richard Stubbs:

Pretty immediately. You can’t go back and go oh that thing we’ve talked about for five minutes. Let me just tell you what it is. You need to jump in. You need to slide up next to them and go oh yeah cause that’s Paris France.

Tim Reid:

So how do I slide in? I can often talk over people and annoys the hell out of me. Know what annoys my listeners. Is there a trick to jumping in? Maybe.

Richard Stubbs:

It’s really hard. It’s hard because a conversation has over talking and interviews are like a conversation but they’re not quite a conversation and it used to be it’s always very difficult on radio too because you’re under a time constraint. People get cross when you overtook politicians but of course politicians know the least questions I answer is a win. So you ask them a question. They start their answer and just start saying their policy and then it has nothing to do with the question and then they just keep talking to fill the time and we’re out of time. Thanks for the question. And they’ve just stated all ever that you have to overtalk them you have to cut them off. Otherwise this is the trick they’re going to pull. Other guests are not kind. So bolshy about that but the same principle applies. I might have five minutes with tim but i know he’s got this great story about the machine gun nest that we whack and so I want to know about that. But right now he’s talking about what he had for lunch. May not always be there. Yes. I’ve got to move on to that important thing. So I think because it’s audio don’t overlook the power of the gesture. So let the person who’s talking no razor I about did the finger up as if you’re calling for the check.

Tim Reid:

Yeah. Because one of the things with a lot of the guests that I have again is not interview savvy. They don’t understand the idea of giving the interview were a little gap a little space to go. Maybe he or she wants to jump in.

Richard Stubbs:

People trial their senses they don’t use full stops.

Tim Reid:

And it freaks me out because there is just no way.

Richard Stubbs:

It’s like merging traffic. It’s just make a gap. Politicians do it deliberately. Once you know the trick you hear them oh my dog and attend you go see what they’re doing. They are stopping the interviewer asking that nasty question about me sexting. And they’re just banging on about jobs and growth. When we have sexting I was never proved to what for the courts.

Tim Reid:

Everything we’re talking about Richard it obviously doesn’t apply to face to face as it does to phone interviews you can’t gesture on a phone.

Richard Stubbs:

Phone interviews are harder and worse.

Tim Reid:

Yes.

Richard Stubbs:

Some of my worst interviews were on the phone actually one of my very worst was on the phone with two band members who were in a different country different cities.

Tim Reid:

Band members and different city.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah and they weren’t really getting on. And and I’m in the middle and it was a band I really liked Steely Dan and these two drug fried dicks. And I just wanted to punch them in their stupid faces because mate ruining my content.

Tim Reid:

So, it’s just a given phoners a tougher?

Richard Stubbs:

Phoners are tougher because they’re not as personal. Phoners are great they’re okay. If you’ve already met the person and there’s some rapport so that’s okay. Sometimes you just can’t get them any other way than on the phone. So you need to be critically aware of over talking on the phone. You need to just pause use gaps. The same principles apply though that you need to follow up questions by listening. You listen and then that leads you to a follow up question and that’s how you get the best out of your phone.

Tim Reid:

Let’s talk about the conversation and listening. So is every interview a conversation?

Richard Stubbs:

Kinda. Well it’s not. It’s a dance it’s a performance. The end of his performance you’re not own event. You’re not actually chasing this person down the back alley with a backpack camera to expose them you’ve got them on because you think your listeners will be interested in them. So you need the best out of them. So this is a dance and you’re going to lead but it’s a partner and dance so that think of it that way you’re not a hard hitting journalist exposing adani and all their shady dealings. You’re just getting someone to work with you to provide some interesting content.

Tim Reid:

It sort of sounds like a stupid question but what I like. I feel like I’m having a chat with you right now. But sometimes there are interviews where I’ve got a list of questions I got OK. She’s answered that next next and to me that’s not a conversation. That’s just a Q and A.

Richard Stubbs:

Depends on what you need from the person. I need the details of the bank’s policy homeline let’s just step through it. And I might ask you but why is the bank got that policy. Why would you do that. Well these are all kind of factual. We’re going to step through the thing where it’s more anecdotal or philosophical than the style of it is conversational because more listenable. But even those bank ones you can always go do you personally feel okay about this personally.

Tim Reid:

See I love that. I don’t know why doesn’t that happen more often I was listening to some radio this morning and it was pretty factual. You know what. I don’t know what the brief was. I don’t know enough about what they were trying to get out of that interview but I’m like I was exactly like that going. Where’s the emotional. Where’s the softer question where’s the prodding question.

Richard Stubbs:

Where is the one that makes it interesting? So reckon sign. Why am I listening to this. If you’re doing the interview as you’re saying is this the best content I can get on air right now? on my board if you start to get bored as the interview if you start to find yourself ticking off questions 100 percent your listeners. So you need to be alert to that and you need to change the bowling  she’s just got to start a bouncer down there or do something to wake the thing up and go throw something this is a judgment call because you can throw something in your left field that really pisses off the person you’re interviewing. And straight away you get nothing. I was standing with someone who works with crown and they work. I give you a great example where the social function standing with someone who works with crown. One woman came up to us first thing she said was Oh hi. She said to the person I was with I don’t know you but I’m good friends with your ex. It’s not going to be a terrific conversation we’re going to have that is great for you.

The keyword in that sentence is my ex. Why would I give you crap for that someone who is a great friend much less. Well we’re now going to put a lampshade on my head so you can go back and tell the ex. So that’s that. And then they went away and then they came back and the significance of crown happens now because they brought the doddering old partner who said I work for crown. Well they’re not going too well are they with the directors. What’s going on with that first thing out of his mouth. Oh mate, I’m not a director yeah I got some issues at the moment. Shut up! go away. I’m certainly not chatting I couldn’t read the person had shut down straight away. And I just found those really interesting opening questions were on theory that could be our team and I were talking about changing it up and make it. But actually all it’s done is shut them down. I’m sure you’ll be very careful I think in conversation that’s boring when you go to live and an up for Christ sake don’t sink the boat by trying to make it exciting by rocking it. So it’s a balancing act. You know you’ve got to take a bit of a punt.

Tim Reid:

Okay. You say and I hear it a lot. You gotta listen. Now, when you started the crown conversation then I was actually having a conversation with myself as to why you got headphones on right and I lost the start of that story. And so I guess listening is important because I feel like I could have contributed more to that story If I hadn’t been listening so is listening. I hear it all the time. What you got to listen for?

Richard Stubbs:

OK a couple of things. If someone has all sorts of people telling you the same thing. You might want to take them right. So I mean thank you for being honest and sharing that despite everyone telling you listening is important you go in her headphones everything you might want to work on that Testim yoga meditation is something that focuses your mind a little more than five seconds just don’t try to extend your concentration range out. Why is it important. Because you’ve done a list of questions that you think will be interesting but the person’s dropping stuff like you know how long you’ve been doing stand out Richard I’ve been doing stand up for quite some time remember what Maliki was presenting to Charles and Diana and then I went on to pubs and clubs and I worked overseas. Did you say Charles and Diana.

Tim Reid:

Is that true?

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah. And Nelson Mandela. So there you go.

Tim Reid:

Early.

Richard Stubbs:

He is out of jail.

Tim Reid:

Digression. Here we go. How do you get around the league in front of the prince and princess of Wales.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah. So I was the only comedian on a band with an excess and the models and I’m talking and I met them both.

Tim Reid:

I think there’s a podcast. I actually tweeted only recently no one’s done a podcast on 80’s. It just needs to be done. So you were the only comedian on that. And was it a Royal Variety.

Richard Stubbs:

Royal Variety Performance. Here are the Art Centre and broadcast out on big screens of this square.

Tim Reid:

It must have been a real influence on your. You mean what a confidence booster.

Richard Stubbs:

I mean everything from there is what it’s like everything else. You know all gigs are gigs and yeah like anything that you do any business any risk there are great rewards and they’re a huge risk. As Charles himself said well it really wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.

Tim Reid:

Do you know what he did? So we just digressed to a place well it gave a greater insight to the guest it was irrelevant to the topic of how to nail an interview. Was that a good thing to do?

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah it makes it a little interesting if we’re getting drawn down. The other thing too is that we talked earlier about watching body language tells the way people tell stories and if they continually reference a feeling or an event in other stories then chances are that feeling or event is important to them. So then you make a choice as the interview. So will we explore all of that or will I just know. I note that you get really angry when I mention X you know. So it’s up to you. Again we go back to the safecracker analogy is that part of the combination or if you just noted it and use it in some other way.

Tim Reid:

When digressing as the interview do you go hey listen we just got to digress for a minute. I really want to find out more about the Princess Diana thing.

Richard Stubbs:

I think that if you say that we’re digressive breaks the third wall thing go wow that’s amazing. Also to rule radio. Yeah. Just say it. Well if I could digress for a moment and just check in on what you just said there I’d like to go wow Charles and Diana what was that like. Oh my god. Get into it. I’d like to grab most answers and some place just get into the story. Beautiful day out there. You know I’m reminded of the clouds and how broad they are and the other day I was in a plane mate. Come on get into the story make me interested. My hands quivering at the button to change to another. For the radio’s scene at the moment. Smooth Pham is writing and I think that everyone who is on air has to just go into the room of mirrors and go. My content is so shit smooth their fem rates. Everyone’s trying to work out why is smooth so hard and my argument is because everyone else is content. So bland and awful. If every breakfast show is wacko crack ho in the fucker bunch and every payday every content or whatever the hell they called now creates the same old same old. And I’m angry about. Well I’ll take your call. I’m angry too. And yet smooth is winning. How shit is your content mate. Come on.

Tim Reid:

It is extraordinary, isn’t it? I’m glad I mean you’ve been in radio for decades and had I think one of the great shows on ABC and it just amazes me that there are so many lacklustre talkback shows the morning show the drive show they’re all just picking.

Richard Stubbs:

Little shit on their own. That’s what I heard. I think we all heard that. Don’t worry he feels that. So there’s a little alarm that goes on his panel.

Tim Reid:

So you’ve just mentioned something most people don’t know what you’re talking about. What I do now. What do I do. Do I have to say who Neil is? Do we have to say where we are.

Richard Stubbs:

So, I would. Because you go. But the trick to that is not to go faultlessness. I’ve got free space at trade Neil Mitchell stokes the corridors like not for art r2 and and we’re away. You know the morning host Neil Mitchell. So you’ve got to give context and background you’ve got to fill in the colour without stopping the flow. And I’m not saying that’s an easy thing because that’s a practice it’s practice thing that like surfing you’re going to get up on the board and you going to ride the wave and each wave is different and each moment that connection with the wave is different and you’re going to grow in school. But this is what you try and force seamless conversation. You follow in the background. The other thing that we haven’t talked about is.

Tim Reid:

I get another page of questions don’t worry.

Richard Stubbs:

Resetting. So roughly the length of a song three and a half four minutes you should say who I am. Every three and a half four minutes. It’s a little bit different down the bottom that it doesn’t and it’s a little bit different on a podcast like. Because people know what they’re getting. But even so it rule of radio is I’ve just tuned in. Who the hell is this guy. What the hell are we doing. And I’m out again so it’s over now. And you’re going to be going. Yeah. We’re chatting with Richard Stubbs and we’re talking what are we talking Richard all things about how to interview an hour ago I guess that’s what you do. You’re going to research topics.

Tim Reid:

Yeah. Gotcha podcast long form podcast which is like a 40 minute interview. I generally reset halfway, is it just too long?

Richard Stubbs:

It’s a synchro to give you a gearchange you think that that. Yes. When you reset and you go and that’s how my mum first shot me home. We’re chatting with Richard does read interviews and but I don’t know. So my ducks are funny. I can use it as synchro to shift from a topic that I’ve finished or that was heavy or light and then I want to shift into a heavy or like the opposite topic. I use it for syncro for that.

Tim Reid:

And you say listeners always go listeners.

Richard Stubbs:

Gosh no!

Tim Reid:

What do you say, Richard. I’m just going to do then hey listeners we’re talking to Richard Stubbs. You’re listening.

Richard Stubbs:

You’re wit, you are talking too.

Tim Reid:

I always felt awkward when I said listeners but I had no other word.

Richard Stubbs:

Because it makes it arms length. Look they’re talking to me we’re all at the table. They’re just sipping their cup of coffee and they can’t talk right now.

Tim Reid:

Yeah. Got it. You’re listening.

Richard Stubbs:

Oh you’re talking with.

Tim Reid:

They’re talking with.

Richard Stubbs:

Aren’t they?  They are.

Tim Reid:

He said with a squint at eye.

Richard Stubbs:

Well because if your interviews what it should be. They feel like they are.

Tim Reid:

You’re talking with Richard Stubbs. They’re going to go. No I’m not.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah but giant because I’m part of the conversation. I’m just sitting with a cup of tea. I’m not good enough to crowd that mate you’ve got to strive for that.

Tim Reid:

Aha I will. While you are here. You’re the wind beneath my wings. I mean your great line on radio is surely you and I have something to talk about.

Richard Stubbs:

Oh OK. Yes true.

Tim Reid:

Yeah you’re proud of it?

Richard Stubbs:

I didn’t really figure out about that chatting about when I announced that I was going to quit the ABC.

Tim Reid:

But it was beautiful I was driving. I almost cried. I mean it was beautiful.

Richard Stubbs:

Well as honest and suppose it is a good example of what I’m telling you why does the medium of talking in its podcast a radio form still exist in 2018. Why isn’t it just more just sound bytes and digital and stories and stuff. And the answer is the personal. Personal is universal or the private something else the personal connection you need to make a personal connection with your listener you need them to really feel like they’re in the room and they’re connected and they care otherwise they don’t care. And that was something else. Radio’s one of those mediums where people can stop buying your product with the least amount of effort except if you’re at the ABC where they’d ring up and say I’m going to change channels and I good on you. And you know well done baby steps tried turning off light switches and opening fridge doors. You know general stuff that everyone does with that broadcast to get your right mate. But everywhere except there people just changed and changed and changed. And I like thought so you need to hold them so you hold them through personal connection. And if you’re going to do a long form podcast and not make it so boring that someone’s had a microsite and gone into a tree, then you need to make it connected. You need to make it to you.

Tim Reid:

What could I be doing better right now to be more connected with my audience?

Richard Stubbs:

I guess it’s about not talking to them. To the folks listening as if they’re an audience. It’s about saying you the kitchen table you know. Are you interested in kitchen table. What’s going on. So you’re not broadcasting to an arena where you’re broadcasting to a small room. You’re in a car talking or some someone else in the car.

Tim Reid:

Mindset shift, isn’t it. Like you’ve really got to go away from the fact that we’re in a studio. There’s microphones. I’m with someone I don’t really know. I am trying not to be an announcer. There’s a third person here as well.

Richard Stubbs:

I mean there’s that old thing.

Tim Reid:

Yes. Panel operator we’ve got a whole lot of staff that as amateurs have to forget about.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah it’s called pretenders. So the role of the interviewer is to get you to forget all those things. The joy of podcasts and radio is it’s not TV so there’s not lights and camera on you often TV channels. It’s all can we film your interview with Mel Gibson while they’re in it and the radio guy and I go no. So why would I say no. Well because Mel Gibson is hard enough he’s not actually his lovely interview. As you mentioned a few sensitive topics. But he’s had enough. He’s had a million interviews. If he can get anything that’s different to every other interview it’s going to be about make it conversational get him to relax have throw some left field stuff in that he bites at and away you go. All of that stops them the minute cameras go on the lights come up and the camera is on. So I would always say no because the content for my program is going to be less and I don’t care about anything else.

Tim Reid:

Got it. You did a tonight show on Channel 9.

Richard Stubbs:

Channel 7.

Tim Reid:

Channel 7 was it?

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah.

Tim Reid:

You’ve done your radio. The interviewing how does it differ? And which do you prefer.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah it differs a lot. So I did over 120 tonight shows I guess. So obviously it’s a lot shorter. The whole process is shorter. I’d meet the guest usually I would meet the guest prior to the show. Sometimes wasn’t possible they were coming from their own show and they arrived and met them for the first time as a little fraught but usually I’d meet them briefly and just to get a sense of them. And then it’s on live. And you’ve got that safecracker thing. Everything I was talking about is increased because you’ve got a couple of minutes to get the best out of them.

Tim Reid:

As the interviewer. I mean I’m doing a little bit of radio myself and I feel like I’m always short changing the guest and the audience those people listening because you don’t have the luxury of here we are. We’ll go for as long as it needs to be not a second more. Whereas in a radio interview or TV what have you got. Three four five minutes Yeah. And it just costs like you know there’s more to explore.

Richard Stubbs:

Well the annoying thing is yes and then you make choices. So three minutes in and Tim is mentioned he did give Nelson Mandela. So did we stop and talk about that. No we were but will burn time and we won’t get to the thing. And this is why everything goes long and the person at the end of the show is always squeezed because that’s how he goes. You’ve got to make choices in your head about where you’re going to spend the time. Is this worth the time goes right to that thing. Is this the best thing I can do. It’s a big rule to always keep in your mind this the best thing I can do. If it isn’t why am I putting it that way.

Tim Reid:

We’re talking with you and I talking with Richard Stubbs legendary Australian comedian TV presenter radio host. Now Richard I go into every interview with one big question that I am determined to get answered like the big question for this chat is how do you nail an interview with an expert. Okay. And that’s how I’m going to headline the interview in the blog. That’s how I’m going to promote the interview. I will go up. I want to go other places. But there’s that one big question that I always want to get answered. Is that a good idea?

Richard Stubbs:

My view. I don’t ever go into interviews that big preconceptions unless it’s ok well Tim’s coming in here and he’s just landed the plane safely. I think we need to talk about that. I guess I approach interviews a bit more open. What I’ve done say it’s a pity on who it is. A movie star then I’ve looked at their bar and I’m trying to pig out unusual things or what I can look at the timeline and I think I feel that was pivotal that choice and stuff like that and or I might if it’s like a veteran I might talked about I look at the same thing. And what would that experience be like for me. What would I think when the machine gun opened up or whatever what it must have been. And then I reflect that to them and see how they jump which way. But the big question things are sure why not. It gives you a focus. think I’m that different or about the rule.

Tim Reid:

Well I think as I asked that, I was realizing that part of that is this thing called search engine optimization which you probably have absolutely no interest in but Google

Richard Stubbs:

I’m interested.

Tim Reid:

Who is the best comedian. I want to rank for that. But Google will rank this interview if it knows what it’s about. So if I promote this interview around one big question then it’s pretty clear what it’s about but it’s all about Google you know who Google says you are.

Richard Stubbs:

I know right. And that’s the hits that are everything.

Tim Reid:

Correct. Who is the other Richard Stubbs in the world that were Stubb’s in the world that kind of gets in your way. ] I have a Tim Reid who was an actor out of America.

Richard Stubbs:

Oh really.

Tim Reid:

Yeah. Completely gets in my way. Is there another Richard Stubbs?

Richard Stubbs:

I don’t think so. Yeah. There’s roundabout. There was one when I was growing up I remember getting blamed for trashing his daughter’s party and I’m like dude I don’t even get invited.

Tim Reid:

What if your guest isn’t putting in?

Richard Stubbs:

Three choices struggle on, stop and got you’re not into this what’s going on because you interview on the air.  I’ve said it. Who didn’t come for the interview that I’d promote and then rang me off air to say he was held up so I put it to air and said what are you doing. Oh well I got caught up I said mate you’re not 300 seat of any I’m trying to sell tickets for you. Why is it good enough that you don’t come in for the interview and then you just phone me. Why is this right. But I’ll guarantee no one switch the channel. Whereas if you just. Oh they could be ticketed because oh well that’s all they would have. So that’s your second choice you go mate you’re not feeling this. What’s going on. What’s up Tiger. What’s up with you. Third thing is and that’s all I have time for. Thanks very much. All right. There was a great interview. Sky News did it. We’re going to talk to the stirabout about up. Well I’ve already said my position about its own zone. I’ve been very clear so I’ll say nothing more. Thanks. We’ll leave it there. And moving on. Bang. That’s it. And that was so cool. People were like oh no. And I’m like know you’ve got to drive the bus. It’s your interview it’s not their opportunity to free publicize whatever the hell they want. So it’s your cause. I think you’ve got three struggle on. I think I can it together but I always feel put upon. So I tend not to do that. I tend to go at what’s going on. And so you don’t seem happy. What is it me. Is it you.

Tim Reid:

How many times you had to do that?

Richard Stubbs:

I’m always ready for my make up for it because like I said we call this it be thing and I have just ended interviews.

Tim Reid:

The great ABC interview. Richard fidler from the conversation our tells the story is only done it once where he it’s an hour of conversation. It’s called The Conversation brilliantly named program. And he’s broken into two halves. He just wants to do one interview. In approaching the 30 minute mark he goes this is not working. He looks at his producer and says we’re going to cut this with his hand signal. And then they’ve got an old interview ready to go for the next half an hour. So you don’t have to do that had to do that once.

Richard Stubbs:

But he’s got the backup ready.

Tim Reid:

Backup ready. Well break the glass.

Richard Stubbs:

It comes back to best content. This rule. I know I’m harping back but it really is just the litmus test of everything that you put to air in a podcast or radio. Is this the best? Are you bored? If you’re bored how can we listen and I’m using the singular because there’s only one left. So do something about that. Don’t put up with bad content. Bottom line. Stop it. Throw a curveball. Do something. But don’t just. Oh it was boring and awful. And you’re listening to that boring an awful lot like what will I do that. Life’s too short for bad content.

Tim Reid:

Correct. Who is the interviewer that you admire the most in this world? Past or present.

Richard Stubbs:

Interesting question. I don’t really think of it like that. I guess I am. Graham Norton seems to get great conversations out in a really short period of time in a very kind of seamless manner. So I appreciate that. It’s like it doesn’t look like that he’s done.

Tim Reid:

They are all drinking.

Richard Stubbs:

Maybe. Are they? I don’t know. Sometimes that makes it worse. Don’t worry I’ve been on live TV and I’ve looked at someone and realize their eyes can’t focus and that’s not a good feeling.

Tim Reid:

Is that a guest?

Richard Stubbs:

I’ve had a couple of guests like that. I had one guest who talked about the 90s pop star and as she’s come on and she is full of drugs like a chemist shop and she asked her eyes at pening and just laughed so hard. And I ripped into the record company people were broader there afterwards because a lot of national TV this useless lump and it’s awkward because one of the record people ends up being my partner and she still recalls.

Tim Reid:

No no no.

Richard Stubbs:

It just feels unfair.

Tim Reid:

But she brought you together this 90’s diva.

Richard Stubbs:

We’d actually worked together before but over the years in different radio stations.

Tim Reid:

Now that so Graham Norton things he does it does seem seamless.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah well whatever. I don’t he is what he is. I just like that he has a seamless way of getting everyone to relax and share and be the style of the show and it looks like he’s done nothing to do that. And so I. Because that’s not true because there is a huge amount of artifice in getting that vibe happening and working at  If something’s not working you kind of jumps on it as well which I like yes I like all that front footing. It’s like in business you’ve got to front foot issues with clients. You’ve got a front foot an issue that’s coming up. You can’t pretend it doesn’t exist. You can’t hide it. You’ve got to get in there and straight away. Look before we get started let’s deal with that. You know the factory’s is on fire. Let’s talk about that in a moment. You’ve got to front foot if you can’t front for it and you’re in big trouble.

Tim Reid:

There’s a couple of words in the world of marketing business authenticity and transparency which sound are they do sound wanky overused but they do also ring very true because if you’re not that I feel like you going to get caught out.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah sure. So that’s a reason if doing it mate.

Tim Reid:

Correct.

Richard Stubbs:

Because you might get caught out if you don’t. Well maybe it’s a blurry moral compass. I

Tim Reid:

That’s just but being all transparent.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah. Because otherwise they might catch me.

Tim Reid:

Wow. Can we edit it that out. Tell me. I have run into this all the time where minute we turn the mics off the guest. Does that happen to you?

Richard Stubbs:

Who are those flogs. Easy like Sunday morning. Who is it? So if I turn more on tonight life and the band’s setting up in the ad break and I’ve wandered over to them off my set and wandered over to them and I’m having a chat to the guys and they’re all friendly and long and out and about you know and and they’re great and you got to tour on it. And the way back redlight up to. And I’m staying em and we’re back we’re standing here with faith no more enjoy it so guys has things like the singing frog and hello my baby, hello my honey says someone’s looking it up and I’m like Sue. I kept going for longer than I normally do.

Tim Reid:

This is live.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah. We’re in live national now because minutes ago they were chatting and we were getting like I some far. There’s a red light went on they went and I’m like So who has a lot you do sound easy. You are one of the crocodiles. Well here they are. And I got it right up of all of them die your death you try to bomb them or punch them right in the face of  rr again you will get hit by my car.  

Tim Reid:

They do change some people mean bringing people in here again who aren’t used to being interviewed. I don’t know why I had interviewed that way. It was quite awkward but bring people into a studio environment immediately they might see Neil Mitchell and they just shut down. Most people do. So I kind of again pre interview you come into a radio studio you might see someone you know. That’s cool. It’s fun. So I kind of got to make sure that they don’t freeze. But what I do find is that once the microphones turned off they go oh you know there was that time to where we we made a million bucks in a day I forgot to tell you about that. And I’m like really how to avoid that am I. Obviously you just got to I’ve got to be better researched maybe.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah. I have a nasty feeling you just answered during your. Two things here. Never turn the microphones off. Like always be rolling until they get up and leave the room. Always be rolling because you can edit it back in and you can do all sorts of things. If they say it’s theirs. Once once they walk in start rolling don’t stop rolling until they leave. Don’t go when we’re finished. And then the so cause occasion that will happen. And also if it’s happening regularly get better at interviewing. Why is the goal left behind.  

Tim Reid:

Doesn’t it all the time you wanted 20.

Richard Stubbs:

So I make it better. I’m here in your body language has shifted. You’re looking down. That’s right. Where the body go back to the way of analogy you’re surfing you don’t right a perfect wave every time. But honestly if you go doctor it keeps hurting when I do this. The answer is we’ll stop doing that. If they keep putting the best stuff after you finished then there’s something wrong with the way you’re getting this stuff out. Let me just break it to you.

Tim Reid:

Oh my. That’s why I got you in. Which brings us to the end which is a part of an interview that again I struggle a little bit with which is how to end now past guest and an old module’s Lund from get away he’s done a lot of TV like he has short video segments. You gonna have a great in and a great out because then the rest can kind of sort itself out in the middle. I just got that out. Yeah. I’ll go. Richard Stubbs thank you so much for taking us inside the art of an interview. See you later.

Richard Stubbs:

Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. I’m not sure what your problem is though what are you and so. Okay. So will call me that. How are you ending?

Tim Reid:

Sometimes I do what I just did then and I don’t use Richard Stubbs because there will be someone else. It’s going to be using names. But what I also do is I might just go because I what I didn’t say is the mindset that I go in in an interview with. And the reason I do this is because I’m in awe of small business owners. I really think their courage is amazing and they inspire me so often at the end of an interview. Like last week’s one I got what you’ve done to start a blog. And then three years down the track of a 20 million dollar business I think is nothing short of inspiring. Thanks for being on the show. It worked. Didn’t have it written but that’s how I felt at the end. Sometimes you just don’t have that ending.

Richard Stubbs:

It should be inspired

Tim Reid:

But sometimes I’m not.

Richard Stubbs:

Well that’s been a line and length and a little based on that. Are you asking me how do I finish off those interviews where I wasn’t emotionally invested.

Tim Reid:

No not necessarily emotionally invested. I just think. Do you finish off an interview the same way every time and you just write down what my ad is and just use it. Thank you. You’ve been great.

Richard Stubbs:

I would think what we’ve talked about today is about listening and about unique content and about all that stuff. So if you’re writing down the way you say goodbye to someone then I think I have to say to you don’t do that because God forbid you look down at your notes to read it correctly. And that’s awful. So I think you just finish with whatever you feel and you pick up one aspect of the conversation you go man that’s been fantastic and I think a lot about blah blah blah. Thank you so much. Don’t forget this and all our other podcast tell your friends their free to download so can you do the tale which is a plug for the thing and hit the websites and tell your friends and this everywhere.

Tim Reid:

Richard I’m a big fellow. I said you at the start of this interview that I would love you to pull me up on things that I get wrong or could do better. You haven’t. But we’re going to wrap things up.

Richard Stubbs:

I have I don’t think you listen. I think I did a lot but you’re not listening.

Tim Reid:

Wow there you go that’s great. Listen more.

Richard Stubbs:

Oh hear that a lot. Do anything about it. No. Just hear they’re yelling at me all the time. And it’s just noise. No just kidding. Look that.

Tim Reid:

Now you are freaking me out.

Richard Stubbs:

That is the thing for every interview. Listen  to what people say. I know it sounds like neo cons but you can have your little questions written and you can be ready to move on to the thing. But the way to progress is to look at those look at what the answer you’re given play with a little bit segue way into your next question. Slide your next question out of the running order back down. Three places because now you’re going to segway somewhere else. Make sure you come back to it. That’s all kind of the duck under the water paddling while calm on the surface type thing. Yes I’m big on analogies. I like now you do.

Tim Reid:

All right. Listen more. I’ve got another interview so I’ve gone practice more listening to help. Big day mate. Richard thank you so much for taking time. What?

Richard Stubbs:

Nothing.  

Tim Reid:

I just I just finished the interview. Richard, thank you for taking us inside the art of the interview because it’s something that I have struggled with for a long time and I feel I could be better for it. Thank you.

Richard Stubbs:

Thanks.

Tim Reid:

Thanks. I could not do that seriously.